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Post by Shelley on Nov 15, 2001 13:58:54 GMT -5
Yes, silver, the book is THAT disgusting. And unfortunately, your statement that it's Leia deciding she's going to marry Prince Isoboobdorkdimwit--can you tell I don't care for him? --and then at the last minute saying, "No, I'll marry Han!" is scarily accurate. The book did not need to set Han and Leia up together. They already WERE set up together, and quite nicely, in the movies. One of the countless problems with the book is that it asks us to suspend our disbelief WAY too much. For one thing, we're supposed to believe that Han and Leia would wait four years to get married. Then we are supposed to believe that Leia's feelings for Han are all but disposable, that the mere sight of a face (supposedly) more handsome than Han's turns her legs to jelly and nullifies her love for Han. This is a woman who left the Rebellion (which had been her life) behind in order to save Han from Jabba the Hutt, because she loved him more than anything. That, to me, does not reconcile with Wolverton's version of Leia, whose feelings for Han become as "insubstantial as mist" simply because Prince Isotwitdoltidiot smooches her. As I said in an earlier post, Wolverton must have seen an alternate version of ESB, because I cannot conceive of anyone watching the carbon freezing scene, seeing the expression on Leia's face, and then being able to write such tripe as, "She tried to remember how she felt when Han was frozen in carbonite," after which she says to Han, "Look, I'll always be fond of you." Oh, and this is relatively unimportant, but it still annoys the bejeebers out of me: Leia starts to blubber at the drop of a hat in the book. Leia didn't even cry when her friggin' HOME PLANET was destroyed. Why the excessive ocular waterworks now?
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starwarsfan68
Full Member
There is one one true movie romance Han and Leia
Posts: 56
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Post by starwarsfan68 on Nov 15, 2001 14:11:56 GMT -5
tHE ONLY WAY I WOULD RECOMEND IT IS FOR THE COVER. I REALLY FIND HAN AND LEIA SOO OUT OF CHARATER. I MEAN REALLY HOW COULD HAN AND LEIA HAVE BEEN THROUGH SOO MUCH AND SHE JUST CHANGE HER MIND JUST BECAUSE SHE WAS UPSET WITH HIM. SHE IS ALWAYS UP SET WITH HIM AND HE WITH HER IT'S JUST THE WAY THEY ARE. HAN HAD EVERY RIGHT TO DO WHAT HE DID. WONT SPOIL IT. IF YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT THE WHOLE PROBLEM WITH COPL IS READ IT AND I AM SURE YOU WILL AGREE WITH THE MAJORITY IT STINKS!!! IT ISN'T THE HAN AND LEIA WE KNOW.
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Post by Shelley on Nov 16, 2001 16:37:42 GMT -5
In my previous posts I say that Wolverton must've watched an alternate version of ESB, because no one could see the look on Leia's face in the carbon-freezing scene and then write her the way he did. Here's an image to prove it:
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Birkendoc
New Member
Searching for excellence, finding mediocrity.
Posts: 4
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Post by Birkendoc on Nov 16, 2001 22:36:05 GMT -5
Okay, Glitter.
The above pic is from the carbon freezing scene from Empire Strikes Back. Care to retract your comment about Leia being a cold-hearted, cheating bitch of a character???
The picture says a thousand words.
Birk
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Birkendoc
New Member
Searching for excellence, finding mediocrity.
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Post by Birkendoc on Nov 16, 2001 22:56:20 GMT -5
Been giving the COPL debacle some thoughts...And if Dave Wolverton is also lurking on this site...hey, dude, nothing personal, but methinks you dropped the ball bigtime.
Anyhooo, the Courtship of Princess Leia...By far the single SW pronovel that I thought was the most out of character for all parties involved.
Let's start with Han...Granted I like how is portrayed as stressed and a bit burned out from the post war military obligations. Han is someone I don't see as a career general, and chasing the notorious Zsinj would be enough for him to opt out of the military once his job is complete. Jamie Cohen actually has a great fanfic regarding this and how the post-war battles take a toll on him in her fic Battle Weary.
But that is where Han's good characterization ends and the craptastic one begins. Hello? Was that HAN SOLO crying in his beer with Threepio?? Since when did he look to inanimate objects for love advice? "Oh, Goldenrod, you are so wise in the wily ways of women, please help poor me win the heart of the fair maiden." Cough, sputter, gag. And what was up with that song Threepio composes about Han. I distinctly remember spitting my pepsi out and dying of laughter at the sheer pathetic nature of the scene. Sorry, folks, the *real* Han would not have given up that easily.
And then there is the whole kidnapping thing. On the surface, a cute idea--Han stealing away his true love in order to win her back. But in reality--so far from true characterization it made me wonder whether the real Han had been abducted by aliens and replaced with an emasculated imposter. Think back to ROTJ...the real Han (and that is debatable in ROTJ as well, but yet another rant for another day) would not force his affections on Leia. Remember, he was willing to walk away and honor her choices when he thought that she was in love with Luke.
And then there is Leia. A thousand and one fanfics (some good, others crap) have been devoted to Leia being forced to chose between Han and the rebellion/new republic. The theme has been done to death, and I have seen better delivery in many of hte fanfics. Sure, have her be forced to decide; but give her a viable option other than Prince Fabio or Herpes (forget who originally coined that title) Good god, what is next--having her fall for Steve "stone cold" Austin from the WWF???
Her whole characterization was off. Instead of the headstrong princess that had forsaken the rebellion to rescue Han, we get this caricature of her that is more of a petulant child than anything else. Her whole moral compass has been stripped away, and we are left with someone who is more interested in playing house and dressing up like Cinderella than the woman who helped bring down the Empire.
I could keep rambling about everything I don't like about this novel. But I'll stick to the above rants for now. The whole story is so messed up I wonder if Wolverton even knew these characters before he launched into COPL. Did he even see the movies?
Inquiring minds want to know,
Birkendoc
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starwarsfan68
Full Member
There is one one true movie romance Han and Leia
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Post by starwarsfan68 on Nov 17, 2001 8:08:33 GMT -5
The other thing I don't understand was why, why did Wolfie make it so long since ROTJ for them to even do this. Somehow I can't see, what was it four years, for them to wait. I know the New Republic needed to get set up and so forth, but come on. I can't see them really drifting that far apart from what they were to what the author said they were as a couple in the begining of this story. I would have hoped that if Han had been away for five months or whatever it was, that she would be so happy to see him. I can't see 'prince fabio's' offer that distracting if she hadn't seen her true love in five months. she had to be worried about him! It just doesn't suit me. If any of my time frame is wrong I am sorry, I read that a long time ago and can't remember it all, I try not too.
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Yanksfan
New Member
Me fail english? That's unpossible!
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Post by Yanksfan on Nov 17, 2001 18:05:22 GMT -5
*rubs hands together* Oooh, this is just too good to resist. A COPL debate! Well...er....not that there is much debate, seems most of us are in complete agreement: the novel sucked. No wait, let me honor it with my lowest rating; this novel deserves a: SUCKS ASS.
Most of my complaints with this piece of drivel have already been brought up (Han being a ranting psychopath, Leia acting like the stuck up prom queen. And please don't get me started on Isolder, I may never stop...) but let me just throw my two cents into the pile.
Dave, buddy, I'm not going to sit here and rip apart your book and threaten to use the pages to line the bottom of a kitty box---as tempting as that may sound. I know you probably worked pretry hard on this 'novel' and a lot of time was put into it. That's why what I'm going to say is not meant to be downright MEAN (although I guess 'sucks ass' was out of line..) but to HELP you. It's a little CONSTRUCTIVE criticism.
You still with me? Good.
Okay, first off: when writing a novel based on a popular film series, it is helpful to actually WATCH said movies. And probably more than once. Oh, I know. It sounds like a 'waste of time'. Those six hours could be spent weeding in the garden or working on your golf swing (you certainly wouldn't use it to work on that book. Heheheh, seriously, between us: how much time did you spend writing it? Six hours? A weekend maybe?--oops, there I go again) But I seriously, I recommend watching them. The films will allow you to get a 'feel' for the characters you are responsible for portraying. Get it? No, check 'em out. Then you could see that Han was actually ATTRACTIVE and Leia actually LOVED him. Wow, amazing, right? You can rent them at your local video store, or god knows TBS shows them enough.
Second, I have a few problems with the actual story. For example, having your longtime boyfriend shoot you with a laser and STUFF you in a smuggling compartment is NOT romantic. Listen man, I don't know your business, how you and your wife got together is not my concern. But MOST women don't dig that. Infact most women would find that scary/disturbing/psychotic. I think the only thing kidnapping me would do for said psychotic boyfriend, is earn him a oneway ticket to the top of my shitlist. And I DEFINITELY would not be sending him any christmas cards that year, much less marrying him.
Third, WATCH THE MOVIES. I know, I said that already. I don't care. Watch them AGAIN. I'm with the others on this one, check out that carbonite scene. This is no way THAT Leia turns around in four years and dumps her Han Solo for a two dimensional super model. No way. And that thought nagged at me throughout the entire novel. I couldn't match those two people up--not in a million years. They seemed like different women. Wait, they WERE different women. See? WATCH THE FILMS.
Finally, I think you misplaced Han's spine. So if you could find it and give it back to him, that would be great. Oh, and before I forget: you better take Leia out of the freezer. If the woman was any colder you'd have to pronounce her dead.I mean she was a bitch and a half.....*sigh*
okay, this was a very incoherent argument and for that I apologize. But see, I read the book over two years ago and I'm afraid that after extensive shock therepy to have it permanently removed from my conscious memory, the details have become a little hazy. So like I said, sorry.
But better luck next time, Dave. Maybe LFL will let you write a prequel novel. Heck, if you have HAN SOLO go on a psychotic bender and abduct Leia, I'd LOVE to see what you'd do with Vader and Amidala.......
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Post by Shelley on Nov 23, 2001 12:38:28 GMT -5
What can I say, Yanksfan? You da (wo)man.
Han and Leia, not to mention their fans, deserve SO much better. Wolverton is, supposedly, a big H/L fan. Ugh. I'd hate to think of what COPL would've been like if it was written by someone who wasn't a big H/L fan.
Maybe Wolverton is a big fan of EU H/L. If so, I can kind of understand why he wrote them so badly out of character, because in the EU, they're only a shadow of the fiery, feisty couple that they were in the movies--although things are starting to slowly improve with SbS (or so I hear, I haven't read it yet). But if he's a fan of H/L in the movies, it makes his characterization truly puzzling. Especially his characterization of Leia. Leia in the movies was tightly-wound, hot-tempered, tough, smart, sometimes bitchy, but had a tender side. Wolverton's Leia, as someone else put it, acts like a stuck-up prom queen. She's shallow and wimpy. Her feelings for Han are like a faucet that she can turn on and off. The Leia in the movies would not swoon over Prince Isodork simply because he's *cough* more handsome *cough* than Han. *cough, choke*
Moreover, I simply cannot swallow the idea that they would wait four years to get married. I've said this before, as have others, but it bears repeating. I figured they got married shortly after ROTJ, at most six months. Four years? Come on!
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Post by Toryn Farr on Nov 24, 2001 20:32:48 GMT -5
Yeh, four years is WAY too long. I can see a year, give or take some unexpected delays. But theres no way they waited 4 years, and theres no way that after 5 months apart, Leia would even consider looking at another man. They should have been all over each other.
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Post by RebelHawk on Dec 31, 2001 15:48:19 GMT -5
COPL... I love the ideaof it. When I saw the cover in the bookstore, I thought to myself "Self, a book that will actually deal with the romance and wedding of Han and Leia."
After reading the book (obviously about two other people named Han and Leia), I decided to toss the book and keep the cover so I could dream of Han taking Leia to his old smuggler stomping grounds trying to impress her whereupon she raises an eyebrow to him, places her hands on her hips and says "you lived in that rat hole? You're braver than I thought."
I can dream, can't I?
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Post by Toryn Farr on Jan 1, 2002 10:09:23 GMT -5
lol, yes, that sounds a lot more like the real han and leia. if only more dreams came true...
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Post by RebelHawk on Jan 8, 2002 21:58:53 GMT -5
Maybe we could start a series of stories that deal with the real courtship of Leia. ;D
Something that starts the day after the Ewok Celebration and leads right up to Leia's pause when Han announces that they will be taking the Falcon for their honeymoon trip to wherever.
What do y'all think? 8)
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starwarsfan68
Full Member
There is one one true movie romance Han and Leia
Posts: 56
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Post by starwarsfan68 on Jan 9, 2002 12:38:21 GMT -5
GREAT!! Please don't let it take four years to happen though! It was way too much!!
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Post by Toryn Farr on Jan 9, 2002 19:40:19 GMT -5
hey, thats a great idea! I'm not much of a writer, but I'll add my 2 cents when I can.
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Post by RebelHawk on Jan 10, 2002 10:50:44 GMT -5
I'm much more of an idea person, than a writer, really.
Anybody here read the Dark Horse comic Star Wars Tales? Issue #10 has a great little Han and Leia story that takes place right after the Truce of Bakura. That would be a good place to start... but it could start the morning after ROTJ. In fact, that's a better idea, isn't it?
Okay, fan fiction writers, get started! Here's your first line: "The dawn on Endor's moon was one of the loveliest Leia had ever seen." ;D
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