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Post by 'Guest' on Oct 30, 2001 16:18:03 GMT -5
I don't get Glitter's Lucas/Crispin argument as to who liked Han better and how that "proves" her points about Bria.
SUPPOSEDLY Lucas downplayed Han in ROTJ because he was mad that Han had become as popular/more so than Luke? I have never seen Lucas say he disliked Han or was mad that he became more popular than Luke--and by the way, I don't think that actually became the case until some years after ROTJ was released, when Harrison Ford became a big star in his own right. At the time of the movies' initial releases, Luke was "the hero," the one around whom the story centered. I remember many people saying that they liked him the best, and some were even mad that Lucas did the twin thing with Luke and Leia because they wanted Leia to end up with Luke, as Han was "stuck up."
Maybe Lucas did get angry after Han became the popular favorite, superseding Luke, some years AFTER the OT was completed. I don't know. But it wouldn't matter anyway. Luke is Lucas' hero, and I don't doubt he's his favorite character (though he loves them all--he created them, after all). Well, sue him. It means nothing in terms of Bria.
IMO, Crispin shoots herself in the foot where Bria is concerned, by egotistically inserting her into the OT. It's also borderline offensive how she makes every bit of dialogue between Han and Leia in ESB some sort of reference to Bria. Besides which, even if she adores Han and likes him better than Lucas likes him, she is unwittingly being very insulting to Han. Whatever his less savory points, Han would never disrespect Leia by making her, in essence, a Bria substitute. No halfway decent man would, when a woman tells him "I love you," hearken back to his dead ex when he replies.
Bria could have been a much more interesting character, and more palatable to me, if Crispin hadn't gotten so carried away with her.
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starwarsfan68
Full Member
There is one one true movie romance Han and Leia
Posts: 56
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Post by starwarsfan68 on Oct 31, 2001 13:41:20 GMT -5
I just have to ask one question from the readers. What is your opinion for Han telling Leia "i know" when she told him she loved him. My personal opinion is that he knew. Just as he said. I think he was shocked that she told him then and thats why all he could say was that he knows. I know he loved her too then and probally wanted to tell her then. But just didn't. What does everyone else think? Thank you in advance for your thoughts!
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Post by Bria_Tharen on Nov 1, 2001 1:57:25 GMT -5
Before some of you go around accusing Crispin of Mary Sueing herself and being egotistical, a little back up for your accusations would be appreciated, thankyouverymuch.
Bria was a plot device, plain and simple. She was used to explain
why Han was so reluctant to get involved with Leia
why he hated the Rebellion at first, but then grew more and more involved
why he had problems taking orders from females
why he would was so happy to see the Empire fall
why he would manically charge down a hallways full of stormtroopers
why he would say "I know" to Leia's declaration of love
why he didn't like being called "scruffy-looking"
why he was eventually attracted to Leia
why he would wait so long to say "I love you" back
Bria was the founder of the Rebellion and stealer of the Death Star plans to tie in with the movies as a nice touch to tie in with the movies. Did Han love her? You bet he did. A guy like Han doesn't love half-way. Some people call her puppy love and infatuation. It was the real thing, baby, but not all relationships work out. Theirs didn't. Bria was not the right woman for Han, but that means squat on how much Han loved her. Han's not the type to waste away when the woman he loves dies, he moved on and fell for someone else. You can't compare the two relationships.
Lucas told Crispin to write the HST to explain WHY HAN WAS THE WAY HE WAS in the movies, and that is what she did. She wrote the assignment given, she did not "Mary Sue" herself or becomg egotistical about it. She was told to explain why Han was in the way he was, why he did the things he did in the movies, and that's what the HST, in particular Bria, was about. I'm a bit surprised at how vehemently some of you hate it. Maybe you should try a hobby, like gardening to pass your time instead.
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Post by Toryn Farr on Nov 1, 2001 4:35:37 GMT -5
gee, this looks familiar. I think this is the 3rd time I've seen this exact (well, this ones changed in very subtle ways) post. I wonder who you could be....
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Post by CMinor on Nov 1, 2001 10:25:57 GMT -5
Yes Toryn, highly mysterious, I agree ... (Just a thought, if Bria isn't a Mary Sue - and we ALL know, just for clarification, that I for don't think so) what's with the Bria Tharen user name?
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Post by 'Guest' on Nov 1, 2001 12:32:41 GMT -5
That is almost the exact e-mail I got from "Bria Tharen"
she is a nasty, egotistical, self-deluded, smug person, because that's what "Bria Tharen" was like.
[sorry, shelley, had to edit this one -toryn]
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Mena Lyn
Junior Member
Head of Fertilizer at Mrs. Annie-Sue's Gardens
Posts: 11
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Post by Mena Lyn on Nov 1, 2001 12:44:30 GMT -5
I just got an email from her, too. What a freak. Is this what she does in her spare time? Email us? Perhaps SHE should take up gardening.
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Post by Toryn Farr on Nov 1, 2001 12:57:09 GMT -5
LOL, mena. yep, i got a PM almost exactly like that, and a slightly nastier version as an email. btw, i really don't appreciate threatening emails. I hope it boosts your ego thinking you can shut down my site. However, I do have my first amendment rights, and I plan to use them to their fullest. If you don't like that, don't visit my site. No one's pointing a gun to your head making you come here. < g >
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Post by Bria_Tharen on Nov 1, 2001 13:21:34 GMT -5
I'm not anyone more than a fan of Bria, much like how you guys are fans of Han and Leia.
Also I'd like someone to please answer what I contributed to the debate, rather than dodging it by childish insults.
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Post by Toryn Farr on Nov 1, 2001 13:37:39 GMT -5
ok, whoever you are, we'll include you in the debate....
first of all your long list of "what crispin was explaining" simply proves what a mary sue bria was. One character should not, under any circumstances, impact every scene in the movies. I dont care how much crispin gets paid, or how much she gardens, its just insulting to write your own character in in such a way. Basically, Bria's undermining everything the OT stood for, and everything her buddy George had planned.
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Post by CMinor on Nov 1, 2001 13:44:48 GMT -5
In light of recent events I have deleted this message as it disrepectful of someone who should not have been acted in a disrespectful way to.
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Post by Bria_Tharen on Nov 1, 2001 13:46:48 GMT -5
I simply don't see how Bria is a "Mary Sue" because she shaped Han's character and influenced the way he acted in the movies. Have any of you ever had someone who really, strongly impacted your life? A father, a sister, a lover? Bria was the ace card pulled in the Han Solo Trilogy to explain Han's actions. She was not created to be his "soulmate", she was not created to take over the Star Wars galaxy, she was used to explain why Han acted the way he did in the movies. That was all what giving Han the backstory of his life was about.
I do not understand how Bria undermines Lucas' universe in any way. For your information, Star Wars was based on Western films, and Han represented the cynical cowboy who had had his heart badly broken and was uninterested in love (hence, the dislike to Leia and reluctance to move in on her.)
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Post by CMinor on Nov 1, 2001 13:46:49 GMT -5
In light of recent events I have deleted this message as it disrepectful of someone who should not have been acted in a disrespectful way to.
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Post by CMinor on Nov 1, 2001 14:00:20 GMT -5
Re: The Western argument.
The Western idea in film making is simply that - an idea. It's an impalpable genre by which stories and characters are created. The basis of Han Solo's character may be the western IDEA but it does not have direct bearing on things he says such as "I know". Bria has been made to be a stronger force than some semi-mythical Hero's Journey ideal. The western idea was a mould for Han Solo, a starting point, not a direct influence.
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Post by Toryn Farr on Nov 1, 2001 14:02:34 GMT -5
yes, i have had people impact my life. my art teacher is one of the coolest people i know, shes done a lot for me too, including getting me a damn good job. However, i don't walk around quoting conversations I've had with her, I don't relate any of my other art teachers to her in any way. Yes, she's impacted my life, but every action isnt based upon her.
its reasonable enough for bria to explain why han is a cynical mercenary. however, thats where it should stop. People move on, create new memories. Its really sad to think that Han is thinking about a former love when Leia's bearing her soul to him. Han's just not that type of guy. He of all people should be able to move on. its really pathetic that one character should influence every moment (especially the private ones with leia) in Han's life. Its just sickening to believe one love is so completely based on another.
and I dont understand how the western thing fits into this, but magic of the myth is a damn good read.
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