starwarsfan68
Full Member
There is one one true movie romance Han and Leia
Posts: 56
|
Post by starwarsfan68 on Nov 1, 2001 14:11:31 GMT -5
Thank you all for saying you had been e-mailed by that person. I thought it was just me. I was a little shocked at what was said seeing as though they claimed i said things in my postings that i had never said.
|
|
|
Post by Toryn Farr on Nov 1, 2001 14:17:13 GMT -5
damn, you got one too?? thats like 6 of us. all the same email too, which is prolly why some of it doesnt make sense for all of us. well, this is getting verrrrry interesting.
|
|
|
Post by Bria_Tharen on Nov 1, 2001 17:06:23 GMT -5
I still don't understand why you are in denial of the way Han was in ANH. He was hurt by love. Plain as day.
Why else would he wait so long before putting the serious moves on Leia?
CMinor, Toryn, I don't know how old you are, but I suspect you are not very experienced in real life relationships. New relationships will color old ones. That's just the way it is. People tend to chose partners who have qualities they admired in their old partners. It is unrealistic to think that Han would never think of Bria after her death, consider he had loved her deeply for half of his life.
What is so wrong about him being reminded of a passionate first love who died in carbonite? Think of what is going on in his head. He thinks he is going to die. He faces a horrible fate. Han may not be religious, but he knows there is some semblence of an afterlife. He knows his Bria his somewhere in there and that she may be the one to guide him to it. I don't see the problem with him thinking of her in carbonite. It is an extreme situation. He is on the brink of death.
|
|
|
Post by Toryn Farr on Nov 1, 2001 18:23:42 GMT -5
I still don't understand why you are in denial of the way Han was in ANH. He was hurt by love. Plain as day.
Lol, I think this is the one point that drives me to bang my head against the wall so hard. I really don't see where Han is hurt by love in ANH. The HST tells me he is, but either I'm extremely dense, or its just not there. He smiles easily, he's pretty cheerful, too. Any bad moods he has I attribute to being stuck in the wrong place at the wrong time. And I would say he did put the moves on Leia, ie, hugging her in the trash compacter, and the flirty wink during the award ceremony. No, he doesnt show any hurt in ANH. The 3 year delay in their relationship was really mostly due to Leia. She was more hurt than Han, she lost everyone she cared about, it took a long time for her to feel comfortable caring again. Han was also reluctant in a small way, but he was really just waiting for Leia.
I don't see what my age really has to do with this arguement.
ack, I'd write more, but time dictates that I watch the game now.
|
|
|
Post by Bria_Tharen on Nov 1, 2001 23:43:57 GMT -5
Watch ANH again. Han is not interested in anything serious with Leia. It is Luke who is ready to move into a relationship, not Han. He is cynical, and bitter, because of all he has been through, Bria being the main reason.
When I first watched A New Hope in 1977, I fell for Han the moment he walked on screen. It rang so obvious to me that he was someone suffering from a badly broken heart, and that was why he had a steel covering around him to protect himself from getting hurt further.
When Empire Strikes Back came onto the screen in 1980, everything I suspected was solidified right there. Where are Han and Leia in their relationship? In the exact same place they were in ANH. Why? I envisioned someone like Bria right then, a girl Han had fallen hard for, whom he loved deeply, and who had broken his heart. Why else would Han and Leia take so long to get together in their relationship? The only answer comes in the form of a character such as Bria. Now, I didn't picture Bria exactly as she was written in the HST, I saw her as coming along when Han was 25 or so, and then being with him until a tragedy tore them apart prior to ANH. But Crispin was working with continuity, and it makes the love story all the more beautiful that Bria is his first love, the first woman he ever says I love you to, and the one who is in his heart all the way up to A New Hope. I also thought that Han's "I know" as he is going to his death, most likely - the look in his eyes looked almost far away, as though he were thinking about someone he may reunite with soon.
Return of the Jedi further confirms it. Han is still uncertain, he is insecure, and he is reluctant to "give" himself to Leia. Look how long it take him to say "I love you", even after Leia proves her love to him by rescuing him. A character like Bria explains this to show that Han is reluctant to open himself up to Leia, to tell her "I love you" because of the last time this happened. And also because he still loves Bria very much and the second love after the love of your life is very hard.
|
|
starwarsfan68
Full Member
There is one one true movie romance Han and Leia
Posts: 56
|
Post by starwarsfan68 on Nov 2, 2001 10:47:39 GMT -5
Han in ANH wasn't looking to fall in love with Leia or anyone. He wanted the money and then out to pay his debt. You can't help it when love hits you. The more I think over their relationship the more I believe I was wrong earlier when I said I didn't think they were attracted to one another at first sight. There was something there. She fought it because of the hurt she had just gone through and was still going through. He fought it because he wasn't ready to find love when his past (jabba) was breathing down his neck. They fought their feelings for each other because neither of them wanted a relationship with the recient past still invading their presnet feelings of life in general. Not past loves just lives.
|
|
starwarsfan68
Full Member
There is one one true movie romance Han and Leia
Posts: 56
|
Post by starwarsfan68 on Nov 2, 2001 11:52:46 GMT -5
I just got Hero for Hire in the post and it proved my point in my last posting. page 70-71 Han tells the monk. { I had enough worries. I had to deliver this group to the rebel base on the fourth moon of Yavin in order to collect my money so I could pay off Jabba. You're not a free man when you've got bounty hunters sniffing your trail. I tried to explain this to Leia, but she wasn't hearing any of it.} That is Han's motivation for not commiting.
|
|
Mena Lyn
Junior Member
Head of Fertilizer at Mrs. Annie-Sue's Gardens
Posts: 11
|
Post by Mena Lyn on Nov 2, 2001 15:23:11 GMT -5
I just got Hero for Hire in the post and it proved my point in my last posting. page 70-71 Han tells the monk. { I had enough worries. I had to deliver this group to the rebel base on the fourth moon of Yavin in order to collect my money so I could pay off Jabba. You're not a free man when you've got bounty hunters sniffing your trail. I tried to explain this to Leia, but she wasn't hearing any of it.} That is Han's motivation for not commiting. Exactly! And please, don't start in saying "well, Han was out of character in "Hero for Hire", Crispin says so. Well, I think Han was out of character in HST. and I say so. So there...it doesn't matter who says what in these cases, simply that they are part of the EU, not infinities, and therefore, official sources. Han states this as his reason for not moving in on Leia, and so, "officially" it is, no matter what Crispin may say about it. EDIT: Nevermind. ;D
|
|
|
Post by Toryn Farr on Nov 2, 2001 16:00:33 GMT -5
well damn, mena, you took the words right out of my mouth. That book really does prove a lot. LONG LIVE HERO FOR HIRE!!
|
|
starwarsfan68
Full Member
There is one one true movie romance Han and Leia
Posts: 56
|
Post by starwarsfan68 on Nov 2, 2001 17:01:03 GMT -5
All I have to add is that I finished Hero for Hire in about two hours total. It was a nice piece of TRUE Han SOlo. I wished it was longer. And just how many times did he ask the monk to help him either rescue LEia or at least check to see if she was all right. He didn't really mention Bria. Thats how much she meant to him by then!!!!! Thank you again Toryn for reminding me about looking at the children's books too. I forgot they were out there. I have a few in my collection, but had no idea there were journals for the three main charaters. I bought Leia's too and will read it next.
|
|
|
Post by 'Guest' on Nov 2, 2001 17:27:00 GMT -5
--But Crispin was working with continuity,--
Ahhh, so you aren't Crispin after all, Bria_Tharen. I rather doubted you were. Why then, did you claim you were in your e-mail to me and to others?
|
|
|
Post by Toryn Farr on Nov 2, 2001 17:41:28 GMT -5
I think I should clear up a few things:
Bria Tharen is NOT Ann Crispin, as she previously claimed. "Bria" was the one sending the emails/PMs, Crispin had nothing to do with it, and Crispin is upset about it. I can't blame her, I would be pissed too. Bria, I'm sorry, but this is really out of my hands. I just wanted to say that any insulting comments we made towards Crispin were our responses to a very nasty email we received. On behalf of everyone posting here, I want to apologize to Crispin. We were the victims of a prank, I hope you understand that we don't hold anything against you.
|
|
|
Post by 'Guest' on Nov 2, 2001 17:48:07 GMT -5
It is not at all clear to me that Han is "hurt by love" in ANH. Nor do I think he's really all that "bitter." In fact, he's actually pretty cheerful in ANH. He smiles easily, he cracks jokes, he wins over Luke as a friend even though he is as different from Luke as night is from day.
Leia and Han are NOT at the same place in ESB that they were in ANH. While I don't know exactly what took place between them in the three-year gap between ANH and ESB, clearly something happened between them to make Han think that he had a chance with her, but Leia was resistant--a defense mechanism on her part, both because she'd lost everything she loved in the destruction of Alderaan, and because she is completely inexperienced in romantic relationships. Her own feelings scare her, so she denies them.
(I can picture a pre-ESB scenario like this one: they're on a mission together, and Han gets them out of a tight scrape. Leia impulsively hugs him and maybe kisses his cheek in gratitude, which stuns both of them because they'd done little but fight up until that point. After they look at each other for a confused moment, Han tries to kiss Leia, and she draws away, alarmed.)
Han is very frustrated with her denial in the beginning of ESB. He himself has decided to quit pretending he doesn't like her and wants her to admit the same about him, but she prefers to remain at odds with him. While he's considerably more experienced than she is with romance, he doesn't really know how to handle this matter. He's used to women more or less falling at his feet, not to stubborn, prideful women who suppress their feelings. He's walking a tightrope, and he keeps falling off--he makes inappropriate, suggestive comments to her, knowing she'll get angry, but at least he's getting SOME reaction out of her.
But he cannot walk away from her. He's fallen in love with her, against his will and probably without his conscious knowledge at that point. He goes back for her during the battle on Hoth, and insists on escorting her to her ship. It's not until he's able to corner her on his own ship that he gets his chance to force her to confront her feelings. No one can convince me that when he kisses her, he's thinking of any ex, dead or otherwise.
Well, there you have my thoughts on why it took three years for Han to "put the moves" on Leia.
I do not think it is at all romantic for Han to be thinking of his dead ex after Leia tells him she loves him, nor do I think it "deepens" their romance. It makes Han into a jerk, destroys the core of nobility that he very obviously has. As I said before, no halfway decent man would hearken back to his dead ex when a woman bares her soul and said, "I love you," after they kissed passionately and were torn apart.
|
|
|
Post by 'Guest' on Nov 2, 2001 17:49:39 GMT -5
Yes, thanks for clearing that up, Toryn.
I do not blame Crispin for being angry about this matter. I would be too.
|
|
|
Post by 'Guest' on Nov 2, 2001 18:10:05 GMT -5
Shelley, your description of H&L's feeling pre and during ESB were spot on, in my opinion. Exactly how I saw them.
|
|